This guy needs to shit or get off the pot, he doesn't get to flirt with you and sleep your best friend. That's controlling and weird and not cool at all and probably the best thing to do is withdraw and set new boundaries. But f your friend isn't dating him then he's either being harmlessly friendly or is clumsily trying to get your interest. Either way he's not doing the bad things you currently suspect him of, he's not trying to play you and your friend and it's OK to stay friends or pursue a romantic thing.
You can keep it light and friendly in tone, make a bit of a joke of it and also make it crystal clear to all involved that you are not getting drawn into some Dawson's Creek threeway bullshit. If it really makes you feel as unsettled as it sounds like it does, cut through it and just ask "hey Joe.. And by the way lay off the constant touching, it make me feel uncomfortable. It may create other problems but at least those are different.
Someone not telling you something personal is not a lie, no matter what it may feel like, and fundamentally two people negotiating a new relationship is personal and could well have nothing to do with how you feel or your value as a friend. Hmm, firstly you don't really have any idea if they're going out. Gossipy friend is gossipy. Thirdly, all the times I've hung out with them thinking we're all friends when in fact, I'm just some third wheel.
This is a super-dooper false dichotomy. It is more than possible for people to go out with other people, and still really enjoy someone else's company. That's basically what most friends have. You're not a third wheel, you're a mutual friend. I was in this exact same situation once. Assuming your hunch is true: Whether anyone did anything wrong or not, the easiest way to take care of your own emotional well-being is just to not hang out with these two for a little while. Give yourself some air. Now, that could mean two weeks, or it could mean two months, or it could mean that you have to stop being friends with these folks entirely.
That's up to you and depends on how seriously this is affecting you. Also the ramifications of what is actually going on. I'd be tempted to completely drop someone who was openly being all touchy-flirty with me while "secretly" dating a close friend of mine. Worse if everyone else knows except you! Then again, maybe they are just two people who are falling into this Thing that neither of them can control, and they're not sure themselves what's going on, and they're handling it in an immature and socially clueless way. In that case, yeah, two month vacation from your friends while they figure this shit out and you gain some perspective.
Sometimes, it is possible for a man to be very attracted to a woman while at the same time recognizing that she is not girlfriend material for reasons that may not have any reflection on her worth at all, simply their compatibility. If he's a mature person, he might say something like "Hey, would you be offended by me asking you on a date, if I stipulated that it would have to be casual and non-exclusive? And if he's incredibly immature, he does that while also dating your friend.
I believe you need to ask him whether he's dating your friend. My guess is that he will say no or that they're seeing each other but not exclusive , at which point you should either ask him out or not, depending on what you want. Then, if he turns you down, tell him that you'll respect that decision but in that case he really needs to cut out all the touching, since it makes other guys you might be interested in think you two are dating, and you have better things to do than feed his ego by making the rest of the world think he's popular.
This guy may be your friend, but I think he's certainly abusing your infatuation with him, and you need to define the relationship and then draw appropriate boundaries. As someone with a long history of worrying that friends are backstabbing me occasionally true, more often false and with a somewhat shorter history with this exact situation: So you go into detective overdrive mode.
You look for signs: I had a crush on this guy in college, and in the span of a month I was so sure he was dating at least six separate people. He ended up dating a seventh person whom I never even suspected. She wasn't even on my radar. I mean, it was so obvious in all six cases! The signs were there! It made perfect sense! It was so obvious, the Grand Crush Narrative I suddenly saw in this epiphany that explained everything and just so coincidentally confirmed my fears at the time, but never mind that!
Like, for instance, I spent weeks recently convinced my friends secretly thought I was a slut because of the aforementioned same exact situation, and I'm pretty sure they had absolutely no idea I was even worried about that. Because that's the thing about all this: What you're seeing is only a tiny fraction of everything that goes on in this guy's world, or in your friend's world. It's like wracking your brain to put together a puzzle with a couple stray pieces, then beating yourself up when nothing seems to fit. The issue of him being overly touchy-feely is separate. He's sending mixed messages, basically.
Either his brain is made of tissue paper and he genuinely has no clue that he's flirting with you, or more likely he is deliberately toying with you because he enjoys the attention, or having power, or confirmation that he's attractive -- whatever. It doesn't have to be malicious on his part, necessarily, but it's unfair to you. At some point, and that point is probably going to have to come fairly soon, he's got to shit or get off the pot, and you'll probably have to tell him so. This might not go well!
But status quo isn't exactly going well either! It'll probably be easier to do this alone, or at least without your mutual friend around, but that'll also make it easier for him to choose shit uh, so to speak , so be prepared to field that. Be sure you're prepared for all possible consequences. Be honest with yourself about whether you're really prepared, too. Or, of course, you could wait it out and hope you date someone else or he dates someone else and this all resolves itself with maybe minor ego bruising on one or the other parties.
But that's a gamble. And what if you're banking on it being you dating someone else, then it turns out to be him? You know, I just posted a question a few hours ago asking for suggestions on how to deal with what felt like overwhelming prying and pressure from my friends regarding a new person in my life and I how I wish I hadn't told them I was dating someone new. Drama is probably exactly what they want to avoid if they are secretly dating. As for your cuddly friend- some people are just more cuddly than others.
If you've never told him to stop, he might be thinking that you're one of the few people that understands this about him, who he can safely snuggle without it being misunderstood or unwelcome. If that's not the case, you need to tell him so.
Are my friends secretly dating?
When he does something you don't want, tell him to stop. What's up with you and your best friend? We need to know. This could turn out very amicable and benign if only they would stop being so weirdy weird. I'm sorry about all of the mixed singnals and weirdness. Here's how I would play it: Are you guys dating? If so, I would be Very Happy for you both! Y'know, you're just a little more into being close and cuddly than I am. But I agree with others that if this doesn't work, just go on and find other friends to see moe often. This dynamic is too weird.
You have conflicting feelings. Is this all the evidence you and your gossipy friend have to suggest they're dating? If so, it's pretty sparse. If he's only just broken up with a long distance girlfriend, perhaps those late night walks could equally well be an opportunity for the two of them to talk about the long-distance relationship he's just gotten out of, because maybe he's broken up about it and needs someone to talk to while he gets over it.
And if I had a roommate who was bringing his girlfriend over, I'd make myself scarce too, because I wouldn't want to be the third wheel whilst roommate and girlfriend are kissing on the couch. If I thought the kissing on the couch was likely to turn into all-night bedroom olympics complete with offputting noise from the room next door, I might well stay out all night as well. Someone not telling you something is not a slight. It is not about you, it's about them and their privacy. You guys sound young college age? There are many many reasons, especially in the fish bowl that is college, why your friends might be dating and not telling you.
Sometimes people keep secrets, it's not a cruel thing to do. They are not keeping a secret from you they are keeping a secret from everyone. That's how real secrets work. Or they are not dating and a gossipy friend made a supposition. The evidence here is: Exhibit A People known to spend a lot of time together spend time together. Exhibit B Young man sometimes not home at night. When buddy-boy gets all flirty, I'd say, while shoving off of me, "Dude, that kind of stuff gives people the wrong impression.
Knock it off unless you mean it. Also, if he's dating your other friend, it must make her insane! As for whether their dating or not, if you want to know, ask. It's complicated Do you want to be the shoulder to cry on, for both of them? Don't cut people off, but be busier, with other, new people. Work parties, brunch, cocktails with folks from the office, distract yourself with lots of activity.
Call your sister or brother and spend a Saturday window shopping, or real shopping. Visit with married friends you haven't seen for a while. Go skiing with people from the office. You need to get over your crush and give these people time to sort it all out.
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Frankly, I'd want to be as far away from this situation as possible. Since you asked for tips on getting over him He broke up with his girlfriend and in about a week he is already dating someone else. In fact, in your previous question, you said you thought he was looking for someone to "substitute his girlfriend" when he flirts with other girls. He sounds like a boatload of drama with some neediness and low self-esteem thrown in.
Are my friends secretly dating?
He sounds like the kind of guy who jerks people around emotionally. I didn't get the impression he was dating her at all. It instead sounds like he just broke up with his long term girlfriend and is seeking solace in someone. Ultimately though, it's there business, so poke and prod and tease a bit, but don't push it too much.
As Brandon Blatcher said, just ask him, in those words. It's a casual enough way of asking someone who's not even your best friend, so it should be OK to ask the best friend. And if he gets weirded out, well then, that's weird. Just for the record, in my book, you can be a "you" friend or a "me" friend. Your friends relationships are between THEM, and only involve you as much as they would like to involve you.
I don't think you're really a selfish person, but your wording makes you sound like one. Just a fast word count, in your inital post you said "I" or "me" at least 46 times and "my" at least 7. In follow ups, you added at least another Not to be a total jerk, but doesn't that seem excessive when you're asking about your friends personal lives?
If G told R that you already know, and G told you that she wouldn't have told R had she G not been forced to tell, then I think you have an answer. They S and G know that you know and they don't want to talk about it.
They are going on double non-dates with you, it's not as though they are sneaking around i. If your friendships with them are otherwise solid, you're overreacting about this issue. If your friendships with them are otherwise not solid, then you could try to think of why that might be, or how you could form stronger relationships. It sounds like they're not telling you because you seem kind of over-interested, as does everyone else, and sometimes you just don't want to talk about relationships when they're touchy, as relationships are in groups of friends.
And sometimes you just don't want to talk about relationships. And we don't know much about you, maybe you went through a huge depressing breakup last year and they're kind of trying to spare your feelings by not making you deal with them as a couple. Maybe you've got a big old crush on one or both of them. I think -- try to take it less personally.
And maybe examine why this is such a big deal to you, and whether that might have something to do with their not wanting to share it with you. So, people we were close to found out later than other people, and some people didn't find out about it from us because people can be gossipy so we didn't tell them directly, which seemed shabby, and so on. We knew another friend was getting divorced before a lot of other people for similar reasons. These things sometimes wind up being really sloppy instead of the orderly, discreet way one sometimes hopes for.
Top Ten Signs Your Friends Might Be Dating Secretly
So maybe that, too. Somebody who goes to Argentina and hangs out and shops with you and spends time with you likes you. It doesn't mean they don't if they choose not to talk about something with you--everyone's got a right to some boundaries. If you know that G knows that you know, why would you think that G would tell you? G knows you know. You said it yourself. If nothing else, a sense that the surprise may have something to do with your feelings. As you noted, these are so often things friends talk about. Of course, dunno if it's a quirk they have for some reason or if it's as someone said, "not answering the phone is a way of answering.
When they made this decision to not be open about their relationship, they may have not stopped to consider that they might be together for years"yes, yes, you people were right all along," with added pressure for explanations regarding their stubborness. Given the fact that their friends seem to have not let up on their interest about the clandestine relationship, they have no reason to think that they won't be in for a WORLD of teasing and drama when they "come out.
Just sayin' posted by desuetude at Also, clandestine relationships are hawt. Just sayin' I'm surprised it took this long in the thread for this to get said. It's not so far fetched to think the reason they're hiding it is because it makes the relationship more interesting. Or they bet someone a Very Large Sum that they'd keep it a secret for a certain amount of time. Or maybe they eloped and got married and if that got out it would make some difficulties. Or maybe you're just wrong. But a good friend respects his friend's boundaries. He's clearly set one up, so knock it off.
This is your business because why? They didn't tell you. They keep getting hounded for it. You're not off-base to think their behavior is odd. That said, it seems like this odd behavior is important to them, so I guess your only choice is to respect it. But yeah, it's odd.
I think your "rules" about what friends do and don't do are only going to get you into trouble later in life. Not everyone has access to your rule book. I guarantee you that G and S are not 'hiding' their relationship status from you to be hurtful, or because they think you suck. Did it ever occur to you that they're not sure? That they might themselves be in this odd whirlwind and not sure if it's the right thing, or go back and forth, and are still figuring it out for themselves?
Did it ever occur to you that relationships are not binary? Did it ever occur to you that people are complex, relationships even more so, and the way you see life is not the only way? I don't know if you're hetero or gay or bi or if you have any feelings repressed or not, but I'm going to say that it sure sounds like it from the way this has obsessed you.
To unequivocally judge that you aren't as close to G and S as you think you are is insulting and hurtful. Dude, this shit is complicated. The sooner you can relax all of your rules is the quicker you will enjoy life more. I would be hurt too, and I think that many are piling onto the OP unfairly.
In this situation, it's hard not to think of it as an index of how close you really are to them, when most likely they were thinking only of themselves for unknown reason when they decided to keep it quiet for so long. A very similar situation happened to me.
I had a job where Mike assistant manager, 30 and Laura employee, 20 had been secretly dating for two years, keeping it a secret from the main boss. Gradually the rest of the staff all figured out they were dating we'd see them on the street holding hands, etc , and we all discussed it privately but didn't invade the couple's privacy, assuming they were hiding it from the boss.
Eventually the management situation changed and Mike became the new boss. The already relaxed workplace became reeeallly relaxed- every single person working there was in their 20s and very good friends; we all hung out together at least 2 nights a week. And eventually we all figured out Mike and Laura were together. I was pretty good friends with Mike and quite close with Laura- she and I talked on the phone or hung out at least twice a week- and she never told me they were dating.
Finally I asked them both, privately, what was up. Laura said Mike was weird about it because of the age difference and the work thing. Mike said he wanted to keep it secret because of the authority factor, him being the boss and all. I told them both that the whole staff already knew and nobody was upset about it. And then we continued to be friends, and they continued to tiptoe around and be all coy. The whole staff knew, nobody minded, and still they lied and acted weird to us all the time. They were so annoying about it- Laura would come visit me at my new job, and Mike, a grown man, would hide outside I saw him through the window.
It was so lame and it made me like them both much less. It felt like a vampire friendship, where I was being open and honest about my life, but they were hiding this major part of their lives from me and all our mutual friends. I felt like they didn't really like me and were just using me- how could they keep this huge part of their lives secret- especially when it wasn't even secret- if they truly liked me?
Plus, I knew their relationship was "out" to certain other friends. One night after a late party, I went for a walk with Laura and her her actual best friend, and we had a very frank truth-or-dare kind of conversation. The friend revealed some really heartbreaking personal stuff. And then the friend turned to Laura- her best friend- and said, "Laura, are you and Mike dating?
However Laura might have felt about me, this girl was definitely her best friend- and even she didn't know about Laura's relationship of 4 years! At that point I realized that Laura's and Mike's secrecy had nothing to do with me- they were just damn bizarre people. Later they broke up and I became much closer with Laura. She said the relationship was really weird, borderline emotionally abusive, and the fact that they'd started off with the need for secrecy because of work had made it impossible to break the habit and act normal later.
The whole situation was really dysfunctional and the power dynamic was all screwy. It was totally their problem, and had no bearing at all on their friendship with me. But it was a sign that they were really weird people- Laura and I eventually stopped being friends and then all her former friends came out of the woodwork to say, "Wasn't it hard to be friends with her? She was so secretive and weird! Trusting your friends and confiding in them is the thing that defines a friendship. Being confided in feels awesome, and being lied to feels shitty.
Your friends are being weird with you, and in your shoes I'd feel weird and left-out and hurt and lied to, as well.
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Anyone here who's all "Just be happy for them" is being totally clueless. Friends share their lives with friends. That's what it means to be a friend.
Anyone who says "Maybe they don't really like you If they really didn't like you, they wouldn't go to Argentina with you and then invite you out all the time. I think the best answer here is to assume they have a weird dynamic and that their secrecy reflects on them much more than it does on you. People like that are difficult to be friends with, and that's not your fault at all.
I'd try to keep having fun with them, but look elsewhere for friends who can also be true confidants and who can and will be truthful with you about their lives. What the hell did I do to my own text before posting? When they made this decision to not be open about their relationship, they may have not stopped to consider that they might be together for years, after which it is increasingly embarrassing and awkward to 'fess up with "yes, yes, you people were right all along," especially knowing that there will be added pressure for explanations regarding their stubbornness.
My point being, sometimes people make these judgment calls, especially regarding things like fibs of omission, and then find themselves painted into a corner regarding the truthing. It's easy to say that everyone would just pat them on the back and say "aw, sheesh, we just wanted what's best for you" but the reality is that people are hurt to find that their friends didn't want them to know about this sort of major life stuff.
Sad thing is, there's not even a good way to resolve this. Whoever's closest to one of the secret couple could put the bug in their ear that everyone kinda knows, and wonders why it's a big secret. You friends-of-secret couple could make a pact to be chill about it when they tell you. But then there's been secret meetings on the subject! I don't think it's weird that you feel hurt, but I do think that the decisions here are way out of your hands, and you're just going to have to roll with whatever secret couple decide to do.
Wow - that was way harsh, Tai. Evadery, I don't think the issue is that the situation is none of your business I think that depends on the nature of the friendship , but their dishonesty. When you originally asked, G could have responded some variation of "that's none of your business - i'd prefer not to discuss it," and you'd have known that the topic was off-limits. But instead, he straight-up lied to you. I'm sure they have their reasons for lying, and that those reasons are understandable, but that doesn't make their dishonesty any less painful to you. In every very close friendship I've ever had, our respective romantic lives have been an at least somewhat frequent topic of conversation.
If a close friend much less two had been carrying on a 1. It hurts to discover that a friend you've always been honest with hasn't extended you the same courtesy. Again, this is not to say that their reasons aren't understandable, but a consequence of being deceptive is that you deceive people, and they might get hurt when the truth comes out. You're right that them not telling you is weird. But I'm also confused as to why this is such a big important topic to you, that requires a "confession.
So in what sense are you actually being "kept in the dark? This clearly has nothing to do with you, as they didn't tell others either, except when confronted. So you shouldn't take it personally. Here's how I'd handle it: I wouldn't mention anything until there's a time when they affirmatively hide who they're dating. Like they're buying jewelry, but won't say who it's for. At that point I say, "Look, everyone knows you two are dating, and it's kind of ridiculous you're still denying it. You can tell me whatever you want, I guess, but you're not fooling me, and it bothers me to keep up the lie.
Meanwhile, I'm not in touch with all the people, because of whom I lied to begin with. It took a long time before finally I had to confess that I had to keep lying just to cover my initial lie. Before I did that , my friend must have felt exactly the way you are feeling now. He knew the truth pretty much all along he came to know it from common friends whom I had told the truth since begining.
But it's nice of him, he didn't think much of it, and just laughed it away when I finally confessed. Our families remain good friends now. Moral of the story is - It's silly sometimes why we do things we do and make it difficult for ourselves to correct them. Just give your friends some time, so they can come up clean.
I'm with pseudostrabismus, to whatever extent that this makes sense - You're offended because you think your relationship with them isn't being valued by their secrecy. My betting odds are 3 to 1 that your relationship with each of them is far healthier than their relationship with each other. The reason they're not talking, is probably that the relationship is a sore point. They don't know what's going on either. Leave them alone, because they're going to have to figure it out themselves, and no one else can do it for them - but don't feel hurt, just feel a little sad for them , because it's likely, after this long, that something has gone a little wrong not big wrong, just a relationship fell through the cracks of how they would 'like' it to work, and they're still trying in the hope they can get it to work before exposing it to their friends.
But hey, since they're not talking, it could be anything I am really, really confused. It really sounds like, unless I've grossly misunderstood, that G and S believe that you're aware of their relationship, and weren't explicitly asking about it to comply with their wishes. So why would they, haven't not been asked about it by you since Argentina, feel the need to make yet another grand declaration of "look, we're together!
In which case talk to them, tell them why you were upset, and then put it behind you. Because it's really not that big a deal. If that is not the case and they have been explicitly hiding the relationship from everyone, including you, then the pretty simple explanation is that they don't want to give you an answer, period. You'll have to respect that.
They're adults, and what they do with their lives is theirs to share or keep secret. Just because you wouldn't hesitate to tell them if you were in a relationship doesn't mean that your two situations are comparable. Maybe there's something going on here that goes far deeper and beyond either's friendship with you. Maybe one of them has an arranged marriage set up and is trying to get out of it and doesn't want things getting back to the family.
You'll have to trust that they have a valid reason for keeping things secret, and decide how to proceed accordingly. Maybe you're not okay with friends who keep relationships secret, and that is your prerogative. In direct opposition to virtually every other comment on this post, I gotta go out on a limb here and say that generally, knowing whether or not your friends are single or dating IS your business.